8am to 5pm MST And the best that Mr. White can do is say I won back in 1995! Ive backed up every single one of my accusations As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. Most cartoons dont leave me laughing. My father had a deep concern, as a Baptist, for Catholics because he truly believed they were going to hell in ignorance. In order to refute a lie, you have to do so with the truth. Thanks for listening. Most infamously, Foxes book of martyrs passed off the baseless libel that the Irish had been murdering Protestants, so it was absolutely just to invade them, strip them of citizenship, and persecute them for their religion. Dont bear false witness to your neighbor is a law from God. : Most every controversy Ive seen involving James White follows the same pattern: They arent a few bad apples. James White Teaches ill bite again I cant say that I have (not that Im an authority, and Id be happy to learn otherwise). Apologetics, Faraston Seminary, 1995, M.A. Was his audience limited to Catholics? 2]Cherish and love the Holy Scriptures, being careful to not impose your theological structures upon its message. like this. Alex Islamist= radical Muslim, not to be confused with the non-murderous Muslims. It was silly and unworthy to posit White as some goofball imam. Carebear, There is plenty of early documentation of belief that the bread and the wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, but I havent seen anything to substantiate a belief in Scripture Alone, especially since there wasnt a definitive list of authentic scriptures (i.e., the controversy over what was valid scripture and what wasnt was a part of the reason for the convening of the council.) Nice try, but I reject your mischaracterization. Thats ACs Law.// Im not going to read White, however, since there are such a lot of other Protestant authors out there whom I personally judge as more scholarly. OK, Lisa. As there is nowhere else exactly the same fact, so there is nowhere else exactly the same fallacy. without considering that there might, just might possibly be an alternate explanation If you have a question, just ask Jimmy directly, the way everyone else does. Welcome, Bill. I dont get what the big deal is with the pictures. Yet, where is the logic in his argument: Dr. White does not look at debates as something won or lost. A guy with a pointy hat $25. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not a person, its the church founded by Christ. Does the Bible come with an owners manual? I, on the other hand, being only a child, & having espied a naked man in the middle of the highway, am unafraid to say, once again: The Emperor is as naked as a jaybird! It probably was the worst the day of your life. Again, these are only cursory thoughts Ill finish more when I get back from Mass. BTW: I was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. Of course, youre a part of the mob that refuses to see all of the issues, or any refutation of alleged issues. SDG, How is God glorified when you and Mother Church want the glory for yourselves? In Your precious Name I pray, Lord Jesus. You? In my view, CareBear has done so here. Quite liberating, actually. To quote a great Spaniard: You keep using that word, I do not think you know what it means. The Doctor nonsense is ironic beyond words. Let us pray for each other! Papal Infallibility? Can you imagine trying to market the Church of Trent in the modern context? yes You shouldnt cut-and-paste a huge amount of garbage into someone elses com box. no? The open eye in the freemasonry symbol is used as a reminder that God is able to see all the good work and bad work we carry out. He is a Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Arizona. I do not in any way, retract that statement. As I already stated, I assumed the url was their doing, because any able-minded, reasonable person would firgure that a url naturally belongs to the site it displays. I think you should read his book The Roman Catholic Controversy and see what Dr. White has to say concerning the development of doctrine. How can we know? Hence human testimony concerning inspiration is based, at best, on the testimony of one person who is, naturally speaking, an interested party in the matter concerning which he testifies It is true that miracles and prophecy may, at times, confirm such human testimony as to the inspiration of a work. J+M+J. Is that the same as being a liar to you? Phoenix, AZ 85069 Unless it concerns history, which is my pet topic, then Im in there like a flash. Those Jedi mind tricks dont work on me. But if the persons demonstrate a pattern of being unable to carry on a rational discussion, your time might be better spent elsewhere. Or may, just maybe, given that hes against ROMAN Catholics, hes refering to Roman Catholics? especially when you consider that Catholic Answers depend on donations, they would thus be very fastidious in keeping their name clean and reputable! By the way, How exactly are Islamists the National Socialist Workers of the post 9/11 world? Visit the Amazing. In discussions lets not give in to anger but rather focus on charity. with his own ad hominems. In fact, had somebody not even mentioned the site on that thread, I wouldnt have even heard about it in the first place. Tiber swim team 2005. That you are a child of God, a much loved child of God. so should you all, including James White] as #1.) Esther Posted by: CareBear | Aug 13, 2007 4:28:08 PM CareBear, I am not necessarily sticking up for this kind of behavior(in terms of the pictures) but everyone is human and give the guy a break. Apparently you dont understand what it means to make a category error. If you are wrong about Sola Scriptura, then you are in a state of rebellion against Jesus Christ. Is Homosexuality Consistent with Biblical Christianity? 4. I think there is also a misunderstanding on what the word Charity means. Foxfier wrote ages ago: It boggles my mind that people pop in, make an outlandish statement and expect to be taken seriously. If White has his own version of theology, he should just live it and not demand time from those who see things differently. James White asked some legitimate and tough questions. http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap050200.htm. So Dennis been living under a rock for the past week? Go back to the Bob & Joe example. Could a Roman Catholic representative point me to a single bishop at Nicea who believed what you believe de fide? Had we more folks like you, then perhaps we could live together as brethren in the Faith rather than the viscious venom you find in the age-old prejudice: Prots v. Romanists. It has to have sufficient relation to have set it up to do that. And why do you think it apropos? Have you heard the other side of the story? There is a point where its reasonable to walk away. A quote for the ages. Having a Pope to declare official doctrine doesnt seem to be working out too well, so Ill take my Bible and stay in my sandbox with the different ideas concerning Baptism, and you can stay in your where the only common denominator is a guy in a hat. This is the fourth, and thankfully, final portion of my response. Or did James White merely find a convenient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word he says by posting these pictures and the other tactics he has relied on in his debate with Beckwith? A humor killer is an attempt at humor that defeats itself by using contextual elements that are horrific or defeats the ability of an audience to access certain areas of mental space safely. I dont care enough to count. Akin & Co. still had some more feeding to do. Rephrase. When I was graduating from my Baptist Seminary, I heard of a small group like that about thirty miles away. Jimmy never said anything to the effect of neener, neener It is DECEPTION! Here is an excellent 17:21 minute video St. Paul urged the Corinthians: By the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that there be no dissensions among you (1 Cor. Well reasoned criticism soberly offered is a blessing. 3. What does is when it isnt intended as serious even by its author, and/or when it so overwhelms almost every conversation that they just dont go anywhere. Incidentally, there are protestant abuses, true, but these were uniformly folk who had absorbed the sacralist/jihadist template uncritically from Rome. We just happened to stumble into each other providentially. Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world, and thus anyone who depicts his debate opponents as Islamists automatically loses whatever debate was underway due to forfeiture. Finally, these photos seem to me to be on the level of what you see on supermarket tabloid covers funny despite their offensiveness, but in a way that does not reflect particularly well on their creators and sponsors. FWIW, after reading Jimmys posts for a while, I cant think of a single instance where Jimmy has misdirected tough theological questions. (A quick glance at the content of the comments posted here testifies to this very thing.) What other language is it in, as I only know how to read plain English and write plain English, therefore I dont understand what you mean here. Context is important. Or is it all about the win? Perhaps you can shed some light on this topic? Elaborate and vivid sleeve alpha omega tattoo. Im glad to hear God led you through! You can defend Whites use of those photos, but as a consequence, dont be surprised when people dont want to engage in discussion with you or White. 2Thes 2:15: blatantly going against the grain of the general tone around here I fully deny that White has in even the slightest way held to the high ground, and I deny that he is the most wronged. James White. As Ive stated previously: It is not inhuman to feel insulted when one is compared to terrorists, as these pictures would initially strike this sort of vile comparison at the onset. The deacon Philip asked the Ethiopian reading Holy Scripture, Dost thou then understand what thou art reading? But he said, Why, how can I, unless someone shows me? (Acts 8:31). I think Jimmy is right to leave the debate at this point. His blog is accessible, worldwide, not merely to his friends. [25], He is married and he and his wife have two children. Oh, thats an interesting response. And, it is becoming obvious, you were just trying to make a fight. They laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17) [16], White is a Baptist[1] and a Calvinist. Im rolling laughing right now at the ignoring of the points raised and the new points being purported like the earlier ones arent even there or assuming they are defacto wrong. Store But I have read a lot more of White than I have of you, and I understand the Calvinist mind because I have one. Sorry, Im not dead set on assuming the conclusion that they were wrong when I dont find them wrong in the first place. It makes sense, because it's the How can something I can *touch* penetrate into my soul? Simply Amazing. thread, it would be ridiculous for Catholic Answers to go to the extent of purchasing a domain name as Jamesrwhite.org just to trick the visitors into visiting Catholic.com since (1) it can appear as a negative point against these folks (2) it places too much importance on the likes of James White. Late have you come in this debate that has raged over the past decade or so. I know that a great deal of technical analysis is left out, here. His methods of distortion are to Catholicism what Richard Dawkins is to Christianity in general he reads, but not too deep. Here I go, getting baited back in. I think you should read his book The Roman Catholic Controversy and see what Dr. White has to say concerning the development of doctrine. Classic Romanist response to Sola Scriptura is to intentionally misrepresent the doctrine in order to defeat it. He is a Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Arizona. Ending the debate was the right thing to do. Its time when it happens. Wish more folks who find a wrong in such a thing would do it. Yeah, heh heh! I have not gone off on a tangent, though you have. Jerry, yet the same council says: This is a rather convient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word you say Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not a person, its the church founded by Christ. Sorry, 2nd not 1st Corinthians. Foxfire, Wow. Even I could read Scripture in a variety of ways. It was supposed to be a hypothetical, as follows (changes in bold): 1) Believe in secret, private revelation. Had you been truly a fair-minded individual, you would consider ALL of the evidence and not merely this post Certainly, there is a courtesy in letting someone know that you are not going to participate in the kind of conversation taking place (e.g. Intent is not dispositive. Like for instance the constant personal character assassination and unsubstantiated accusations against one person in particular (James White). Im happy you put genuine in quotation marks, so as you differentiate the Gospel of Romanism from the Gospel of Christ. Respond even stronger? No one deserves maltreatment. Ill fix your quote for you. Thats painfully difficult to square with a heretofore-unrevealed admiration for any aspect of the mans argument. I dont think its unreasonable either. Hes lived in Phoenix since 2015 and resides from sunny (and expensive) San Diego. And then you go off on how he hasnt proven James Whites innocence. nothing wrong with that, either Meaning if I were to post a picture of Nazis and make the caption that it reflects Caucasians, it in no way says anything even remotely demeaning about them. Before anyone knew the state of what God had done (canon mediated), God infallibly knew the current state and content of canon (infallible). Indulgences? This reveals something of Whites character, his impulsiveness, and his lack of good judgment. Wasnt there a guy who was good at this, whats his nameChick or something? Ill read it after the kids are in bed and dishes are done. When White does this analogy to jihadism to make his point, I think he does it out of a deep sense of frustration I have to say that I dont think comparing People who both have an irrational mindset that sees the enemy behind every bush (no pun intended) is invalid. Joe: Hey, youre just as bad. HehI just had a mental image of Akin and White in a debate, each posing questions to the other, and each responding with I answered that in my book insert title. and never actually responding beyond that. How about you summarize it for me, so I at least have something to work with, instead of just rewriting what I said and ignoring the willingness to hear the arguments, if not through reading the actual book in the next 5 minutes. Your post was very interesting, but I had the mischievous temptation as in Finding Nemo to say something like You know, for an expert in humor, that wasnt very funny. Way towhat did yall do anyway? I would hope that even those who agree with White philosophically and even were previously fans of his based on the similarity of his ideas to theirs, and also for the sake of fairness also we who disagree with him on these larger issues, will be able to separate the sin from the sinner and from the message, not lumping all automatically as bad or good. What about that description of Christians all having great love for one another?! No. I dont know what you are asking when you say, did you decide this yourself, or did someone else decide it for you? I am a CatholicI believe in free will, as a gift of God Almighty. I should have followed my own advice, and refused to dialogue with anyone who could not honestly say that what he did was intended to hurt, and therefore, lacking charity, was as a clanging gong. Pope St Pius X pray for us! http://aomin.org/index.php?itemid=2185&catid=7 Name above all names and the vitriol (no one can argue the level of hatred) expressed towards Sola Scriptura and the Early Church in Sola Scriptura! Your idea that Roman Catholics were killing your people for hundreds of years and then a *few* bad apple Protestants killed some people in return is so unhistorical that one doesnt know where to begin. By placing the beginning paragraph or two of the lead article of their monthly magazine, This Rock, on the very cover of the work, they draw your attention into reading the rest of the article. But are you all so devoid of humor that you cannot/willnot see how you prove his pooint ? The Danger of Roman Catholicism 7pm Nightly February 10-12 FIRST BAPTIST OPELOUSAS 3835 I-49 S. Service Road Opelousas, LA 70570, February 8, 2023 Debate: What is Marriage? Poor imitator of Our Lord that I am, I remain your servant and brother in Christ, Dear Okey: That makes me laugh. Carebear and Lane, In that respect, StubbleSpark, I appreciate your adventurous thinking, though it seems to me that we do need some lumps to go with our cake. What would you say if I told you that the only logical response to that quoted statement was that you had obviously not never listened to White at all? I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? And He will do it because He loves us. I beg anyone who is defending Dr. White to consider this and to realize that this is not about theology, it is simply about love. Dr. Beckwith has not made anything personal, but it seems everyone, and especially James White, sure has made it personal. Thank you. That doesnt mean I refuse to read it (or excerpts of it). Its out to confuse you! For that matter WHY would someone go through the bother?. White, presumably, thinks that forensic justification extends to doctorates and humor as well, as if merely declaring them so is the same as making them so. No, and Im not close enough to any of you, either. the fundamental philosophical flaw is its functional commitment to a nominalism that denies connection or categories. Meant to say Salvation controversy by Akin, great book, was also thinkinbg of White scripture alone book which i think is also a great book lol. Dont use this as a cheap debate tactic to aviod the real issues. Isnt that a littleobsessive? Perhaps he can use this not as a tit for tat, but as a chance to expand. Obviously you will probably disagree. The priest jsut sits there takes it all in. advocates of a false plan of salvation. Also, those of us in Protestantism do just say God did it as you so immaturely put it. did anyone see the White/Pacwa debatejust look at the debates with Pacwa Ask yourself a question: have you seriously engaged the study of Scripture, so that you have basic, foundational hermeneutical principles clearly in your thinking? As I pointed out above, and you reitterated, we must be prepared to forgive at all times. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. God is with us. That doesnt mean everything he does is bad. . Can you get off this tangent and actually make a point? Dean. Your ad hominem comment had no basis. No I dont and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to that accusation. Dont you lose under Godwins Law as soon as you say that Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world? 1. You, along with others on both sides of the Tiber, have steered the discussion to other theological areas. 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