I didn't think anything of it. They noted there was no eyewitness, no DNA or fingerprint evidence and no blood or biological material on Browns clothing. [Then] she told me that when she was waiting downstairs for Jordan to come downstairs and go get the school bus like they normally do, she heard a big boom and she identified it as the sound of a gun, added retired Pennsylvania State Police Trooper Bobby McGraw. And on 20/20 Adalynn said she woke up from a loud noise..she answers her moms phone goes to wake her up..she doesnt wake up..she goes outside & the tree trimmers help.. which would have been around 9am.. the other girl per the police reports said it was an ordinary morning. He also claimed he didnt know where Houk lived. Judge Hodge put Brown on probation in the custody of an uncle who lived in Ohio, just across the border from Lawrence County. The mother of Kenzie Houk, who was 26 when she was murdered in 2009, and other relatives confirmed Monday's decision by a Lawrence County judge to release Jordan Brown following a juvenile. I think the ex boyfriend did it. He acknowledged to authorities that he and Houk had argued about money. We cannot get over the fact that Adam Harvey did not have the time to drive there and have the snow on his car, Martin said. I didnt care. Jordan Brown is ruled . Jordans motive, McGraw believed, was that he was jealous of the new baby. Her unborn son died as well. A state police spokesman, Ryan Tarkowski, declined to comment on pending litigation. Around 8:15 a.m., Jordan said he and Jenessa left the house to catch the school bus. He was almost 21 when Pennsylvania's highest court said. Officers responded to a report of a person shot in the 3600 block of Vine Street at 9:16. And then, Jordans defense attorneys pointed to the troopers who had said Jordans shotgun smelled as if it had just been fired when they arrived at the house that morning. State Police Corporal Troy Steinheiser, now retired, interviewed Chris Brown at the state police barracks. Emma Tustin, 32, murdered the boy by . In an interview with New Castle News, Elisco addressed potential problems with how the case was investigated. Paula Scarlett-Brown, the widow of Pilgrim Assemblies International founder Archbishop Roy E. Brown, told the New York Post on Sunday that she and Brown's daughter, Tiwana Brown, had a major fight over the minister's body just hours after his death on June 2. >>PREVIOUS STORY: Man convicted at 11 of pregnant stepmoms 2009 murder exonerated of crime. After Pennsylvania's Superior Court ruled that Judge Motto violated Brown's Fifth Amendment rights, Judge Motto recused himself from the case, and Judge John W. Hodge granted the decertification petition and ruled that Brown should be tried as a juvenile.[6]. It wasnt until the coroner arrived and started taking photos, Martin said, that they realized this was something else. That seems highly unlikely, added Bongivengo. NEW CASTLE - Jordan Brown, charged at age 11 with killing his father's pregnant fiancee, is now fighting back against the legal system that jailed him. Jordan battled the fear that she would turn out to be like her mother. Both children were interviewed and, according to police, neither said anything out of the ordinary had happened that morning. 6 New Details About The Woman Who May Have Falsely Accused Emmett Till, discussed her reaction to the decision with local CBS station WKBN, Groom Invites His Nephews To His Wedding But Excludes Brother's Stepdaughter Her Mom Is Debating Whether To Attend, What Jon Hamm Says Changed His Mind About Marriage After Swearing It Off During His 18-Year Relationship With Jennifer Westfeldt, Man Insists Landlords Should Get Tipped By Tenants If They're Going To Tip Baristas, Latest Updates And News About The Murder Of1stGrader AprilTinsley And The Man Finally Arrested After 30 Years. In her first interview, the girl said she did not hear or see anything unusual, according to the lawsuit. The next day, state police arrested Brown, who was a fifth-grader at the time. Alan's death devastated his family. I was happy. On Wednesday, the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court overturned the conviction of Jordan Brown, who was convicted of murdering his fathers pregnant fiance in 2009 when he was just 11 years old. Houks mother Debbie Houk told 20/20, Jordan's a murderer. Marie Magoon, Spencer Jordan tortured 6-year-old Meika Jordan before death, alleges Crown Spencer Jordan, Meika's father, and Marie Magoon, her stepmother, were originally charged with. What happened to me is so horrible, even though when I was young I would say I didnt understand what was happening I look back and see all the blatant injustices, and that angers me, he said. A juvenile court judge later found Brown guilty of first-degree murder and homicide of an unborn child. Multiple members of Browns legal team have spoken out about the supreme courts decision. Of course a killer is going to say I didnt kill her, and of course a violent man who would kill his pregnant ex would be raised by an equally violent man who would have no problem providing an alibi for his son. After researching the case more, in particular the testimony of the 7 year old Jenessa. As for his stepsisters testimony, she was 7, could very well have felt scared they were going to arrest her so she threw Jordan under the bus, not fully understanding what was going on. I have been on the fence after seeing the 20/20 (originally thought he was innocent). [He] never changed his story. Jordan Browns father speaks out after sons murder conviction overturned Jordan Browns father speaks out after sons murder conviction overturned. All I remember was they came and got me at 3:00 in the morning, Jordan Brown said. They are also not smart enough to leave no traces. CLICK HERE to find out how. The Pennsylvania Superior Court rejected an appeal by three area newspapers (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, and New Castle News) to overturn Hodge's ruling and open the hearing to the public. I just did & dont understand the grounds they dismissed her ex as innocent. PITTSBURGH (AP) A boy who was 11 when he was accused of killing his father's pregnant fiance and her unborn son was found guilty Friday of their 2009 shotgun slayings. I can't even imagine all the pain Jordan Brown and his family went through :/. Meika's mother and stepfather, Kyla and. It was a frigid day in Wampum, a small town in Western Pennsylvania. Now 21, Brown, who spent more than. Im from the nearby area also. Both lawyers also discussed key details about Browns whereabouts. [11] After those newspapers decided not to pursue their appeal further, Judge Hodge was directed by another panel of the Superior Court to move swiftly to hold an adjudication hearing. I believe that testimony, further more with: "She told officers she asked Jordan Brown about the source of the sound, but he would not answer. Judge Hodge ruled that Jordan would not be released pending that hearing. Adalynn Houk is seen here in the undated family photo. Kids can be evil. I agree, the more I think about the more unlikely it seems. Kenzie Houk, seen here in this undated family photo, and Chris Brown were engaged when she was killed. Brown said this week from his western Pennsylvania home that he is studying computer science at a college in Ohio, but taking criminal justice classes with the idea that he might go to law school and pursue a career as a civil rights attorney. Another issue Jordans attorneys raised was that there was no blood or tissue found on the gun or Jordan Browns clothing that day. Her family says Adalynn shared bits of her story over the years, but its something neither police nor Jordans defense team have ever heard. This was way beyond shoddy police work! TPD says they have arrested 21-year-old Jordan Brown for first degree murder. People will believe what they want to believe, but Jordan was innocent. At that point, we assumed that somehow she had hemorrhaged, Martin told 20/20. We didn't touch her, we didn't move her. 11 is not too young to wield a shotgun, and we dont know anything about his interactions with his dads fianc. Kenzie Houk is seen here with one of her daughters in this undated family photo. This is my first comment on Reddit. [I] went downstairs, got my clothes, went in the bathroom, got dressed. Pregnant Mother's Murder Leads Police to Arrest Her Step-Son Chris Brown and Kenzie Houk had been friends since they were teenagers. The blanket being outside Jordans bedroom is not surprising. And then they took me straight to the county jail. You have to be sure enough to charge him, Bongivengo told 20/20., At a time when headlines called Jordan America's littlest monster, he was at an age where he still believed in Santa Claus. They played a big [role] in, like, keeping my head straight, he said. Both she and her unborn son died as a result of the attack. Jordan freely admitted he knew how to handle a gun, and the gun powder was only found on his sweatshirt, which hed worn on a duck hunt just a couple days before. Thats blood-boiling, seeing-red motive. So we hurry up and went out the backdoor and ran down the driveway. Police found several rounds of ammunition inside the family's farmhouse. But because few people seem to agree with him, he said, Krause decided to speak out Wednesday on behalf of Jordan Anthony Brown, 11, who is charged with two counts of murder in the shooting death of his father's pregnant fiancee last week in New Galilee. And if you go by Adalynns account, this means it all, including the murders, happened long after Jordan and Jenessa had left the house and were on their way to school. The coroner determined Lily had died at least two hours before her stepmother . Dara's mother, 64-year-old Linda McAllister, was shot dead in 2017, and the Hodges' daughter, 23-year-old Jordan Hodge, was convicted of the two murders, along with her boyfriend, 30-year-old . The day before Emily was murdered James (age 16 at the time) came to visit her. While awaiting trial, Jordan Brown was housed for three years at the Edmund L. Thomas Adolescent Center, a juvenile detention facility in Erie County, Pennsylvania. And her face was facing me, Adalynn said. Where are phys reports showing this childs jealousy and hatred for his step mom. I am very curious to see if the 7 year old step sister will ever speak out on what she saw/heard that morning now as an adult. TACOMA, Wash. Jordan Brown was killed on March 19 at the World of Weed Cannabis Dispensary during an armed robbery. Jordan Brown said he has mixed feelings about what happened to him. Jordan Brown was sitting with his stepsister Jenessa in a room adjacent to the room where the victim was sleeping, run upstairs, grab a shotgun, load it with a shotgun shell, walk over to the bed, place that shotgun up against her head, pull that trigger, kill her, somehow manage to wipe whatever-- bodily fluid or blood might have been contained on the end of that gun, take it upstairs, replace it along the wall, remove the shell, run downstairs while her sister presumably was waiting for him in this very small house All without leaving a single clue., All they really arrested him on, largely, was the statement of Jenessa, Elisco said. She was interviewed four times in 14 hours after her mothers death, according to the lawsuit. Police arrested Jordan Brown based on the information provided by the girl. Police also said they found a 20-gauge shotgun shell casing in pristine condition next to the familys driveway the next day. Lawrence County Judge John Hodge found the now-14-year-old Jordan Brown delinquent, the juvenile . The 20/20 interview also gave me the hunch he was guilty. Jordan Brown, who was convicted, then exonerated, of murdering his father's fiance when he was a preadolescent, has filed suit against those who his attorney said robbed him of his childhood, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette . On June 13, 2016, more than seven years after his arrest, Jordan Brown was released from juvenile custody, two months before his 19th birthday. On July 18, 2018, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his conviction in a 50 decision. Jordan, who had a bedroom upstairs, had already moved his clothes into that downstairs bedroom. "[15][16] The last words of the opinion then ordered that "Appellant is discharged." That day, she said she remembered being woken up by the sound of a gunshot. Kids that age dont just up a kill without there having shown resentment and previous hostility toward their victims. And again a third appeal was taken to the Pennsylvania Superior Court. I don't think the kid did it. By Joe Mandak - News.yahoo.com. Youve, you know, ruined his name in essence. 20 A pregnant Kenzie Marie Houk, 26, is killed in the New Beaver Borough farmhouse she shared with her daughters Jenessa, 7, and Adalynn, 4 her fianc, Chris Brown, and his son,. The tree trimmer called 911. Pay for the crime that you did, Deborah Houk said in a phone interview Wednesday. They attempted CPR, but it was too late. Brown and Houk had known each other since they were teenagers and were planning to be married soon. However, shortly after his birth, Chris attained full custody as his mother fell seriously ill. No question.. I also thought it was hilarious how uncomfortable the big bald cop in the middle was. But he added that Jordan's hands were never checked for gunpowder residue. A judge finding a juvenile delinquent is effectively a guilty verdict. The blow back argument is hard, but he may have shot her from an angel and spot (door entrance) that may have hid it. Were ecstatic, we believe professionally and personally in Jordans innocence, Elisco told the station. Police also confirmed he had been at work during the shooting, so they quickly eliminated him as a suspect. Awful Details About The 11-Year-Old Boy Who Murdered His Fathers Pregnant Fianc And Why His Conviction Was Just Overturned, overturned the conviction of Jordan Brown, found guilty of first-degree murder and homicide of an unborn child, questioned prosecutors reliance on circumstantial evidence, If Casey Anthony Didn't Kill Her Daughter, Who Did? A week has passed since Roy Oliver, a Balch Springs police officer, shot his rifle through the window of a car and killed 15-year-old Jordan. Attorney Dennis Elisco told WPXIthat he believes the supreme court made the right call in exonerating Brown, whose record he believes will eventually be expunged. And just feeling so sorry for him at that moment, Colafella said. Meanwhile, officers also went to Mohawk Elementary School to speak to Jenessa and Jordan. The 26-year-old Houk and her unborn baby died Feb. 20, 2009, when she was shot in the New Beaver Borough farmhouse she shared with her daughters, her fianc, Chris Brown, and his son Jordan,. Nearly two years after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court cleared him, Mr. Brown is suing an ex-state police commissioner and former troopers. Though Mr. Houk fully believes that Brown is the murderer, another possible suspect has been considered. Alan's stepmother, Rosalind L. Brown, and her brother, Montel Pettiford, were eventually convicted of his murder. Emily's Death: Died September 18, 1979. It was the police. And it was a boy. But it would take another three and a half years before his appeal was heard by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. 5 Theories Explain HowCayleeAnthony Really Died, pointed out the lack of an eyewitness or credible forensic evidence, Who Is Carolyn Bryant Donham? The Jordan Brown case. More than two years after Jordan Brown was charged, a judge ruled that his case would be moved from adult to juvenile court, where instead of facing life in prison he would get out far earlier. She leaned against the Formica island, her sandy blond hair done up in a bulbous, frizzy ball. 6 New Details About The Woman Who May Have Falsely Accused Emmett Till. - The mother of 16-year-old George Almaraz Jr., who was killed, allegedly after suffering abuse from his stepmother, spoke about her son's brutal death. Brown then drove off in a black . The justices attacked the evidence as insufficient and said that the juvenile trial evidence pointing to a shotgun in Brown's bedroom as the murder weapon supported an equally-reasonable conclusion that it was not the murder weapon. And I went outside, and I had asked the tree men that were cutting down trees, Do you guys know my grandmas number? And they were like, No. she said. Replies analysing and speculating over the mystery and possible explanations are encouraged. Christopher Brown and his once-partner, Mildred Krause, gladly welcomed Jordan Brown into their lives on August 12, 1997. I agree with a lot of the previous comments- the bald cop was way too defensive, the girls story changed and that was ok but his story changed and it meant he was guilty, the ex had all the motive and he said he didnt do it so they said ok. What really gets me though is that grown men who have prior criminal experience commit murders, try and clean up the scene, and still leave physical evidence. Lawsuit claims evidence fabricated in case of man exonerated in pregnant stepmothers murder Lawsuit claims evidence fabricated in case of man exonerated in pregnant stepmothers murder. Wright alleges in the lawsuit that investigators failed to follow protocols for interviewing children when they talked to Houks two young daughters and when they interviewed Jordan. And her phone rang.. As time went on they completely abandoned that statement, which would have been the strongest evidence in the case, and rather tried to pursue a prosecution based upon this forensic evidence.. In 2016, Brown was released from juvenile detention, but he and his defense team continued to argue his innocence. Jordan. I have never looked back that we arrested the wrong person, in my opinion. Her mom said she doesnt care what Browns next step is; she believes he killed her daughter. He was granted transfer of his case into the juvenile court system. Her partner and Arthur's father, 29-year-old Thomas Hughes, was found guilty of. The farmhouse in Wampum where Chris Brown lived with his fiance Kenzie Houk, his son Jordan Brown and her two daughters, Janessa and Adalynn. He kept shifting and obviously upset. PROVO A Provo man who police say "groomed" a 13-year-old girl for sex has been charged with multiple counts of rape. I didn't know where I was at, what was going on or anything, he said. And none of us wanted to put handcuffs on an 11-year-old. But still, that side of it, that suffering from the loss and not having any answers, knowing he was falsely accused and the route the prosecutor and investigators took on this, the inadequate investigation. But as far as his guiltiness, I know he is. She feared him, Chris Brown said. "The conflict caused police to reinterview Jenessa, who told police that Jordan Brown had a shotgun covered in a blanket Friday morning and she heard a big boom prior to the pair leaving for school. Just 18 hours before, Chris Brown had lost his fiance and unborn child. [5], Jordan Brown was initially charged as an adult. Seriously the alibi for the ex boyfriend that threatened to kill her was he had some snow on his truck still..give me a break. No way. [18], Brown is currently a college junior studying computer science. He has repeatedly stated in interviews that while he suffers from PTSD, he is committed to turning his life around. 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He spent over three years in a juvenile facility in Pennsylvania. The justices attacked the evidence as insufficient and said that the juvenile trial evidence pointing to a shotgun in Brown's bedroom as the murder weapon supported an equally-reasonable conclusion that it was not the murder weapon.[1]. By then, Bongivengo had been replaced by a different prosecutor. ", I just read about this case on people.com. "Homicide, something of this magnitude was very, very uncommon," Martin said. It used to bother me all the time. The 5-0 supreme court ruling exonerated Brown of all charges, overturning earlier findings by a Lawrence County Juvenile Court Judge that were upheld by the states appellate court. The blended family seemed to be bonding. That morning of Feb. 20, 2009, Jordan Brown said, was just a normal morning as he was getting ready for school. And the first person that comes to mind was Adam Harvey. On May 8, 2013, Superior Court, in the second appeal that came before it in this case, ruled that "the juvenile court committed a palpable abuse of discretion in rendering a ruling that is plainly contrary to the evidence" and vacated the juvenile court's disposition of delinquency. Houk, 26 and about eight months pregnant with Jordan's little brother, was found dead in her bed by her 4-year-old daughter on Feb. 20, 2009. [I] havent had a chance to grieve properly, Chris Brown said. ". I am a step dad to twin 12 year old girls, a 7 year old and a 4 year old for the past 3 years. Directed by Kyle Saylors, the true crime story is based on 20 years of research by Simpson's former business associate and friend, Norman Pardo. Though life had taken them in different directions for a while, they reconnected and were getting ready to officially tie the knot, and give birth to a baby boy they had already named Christopher. I remember when this all happened and just read up on everything that has happened since (I had an idea that he was out of prison, but had NO idea that his conviction was overturned based on insufficient evidence). Houk, who was eight months pregnant at the time of her death, was found dead by her four-year-old daughter in the familys farmhouse in Pennsylvania. They attempted CPR, but it was too late. [I'm] happy that this part of it is over with Jordan, you know, being wrongfully accused. Brown was tried as a juvenile after his lawyers fought a judges original decision to try him as an adult. Following three days of testimony and legal argument, Judge Hodge issued his ruling on April 13, 2012, that Brown was responsible for first degree murder in the death of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk and of homicide in the death of her unborn male child. He is one. Until now. Boy who killed dad's pregnant fiancee to get juvenile review. Harvey also drove a black truck. Harvey told police he didnt harm Houk, telling them he was sleeping at home when she was killed. This is precisely what would have had to have happened, Colafella added. As for Chris, he still mourns the loss of Houk and their unborn son. Just a fifth grader at the time, he said he didnt understand of what he was being accused. In response, he allegedly confronted Houks parents in a nightclub the night before Houk'sdeath. >>PREVIOUS STORY: Jordan Browns father speaks out after sons murder conviction overturned. During his incarceration, Jordan taught himself to play guitar and said he became a pretty good basketball player. Simpson became the immediate suspect, and seemingly fled from . Emma Tustin, 32, was unanimously convicted at Coventry Crown Court on Thursday of murdering Arthur Labinjo-Hughes. After the arrest, prosecutor John Bongivengo told reporters he was confident in his case against Jordan Brown. April 13, 2012. I didn't understand what was happening. At all. RELATED:Latest Updates And News About The Murder Of1stGrader AprilTinsley And The Man Finally Arrested After 30 Years, The content produced by YourTango is for informational and educational purposes only. I thought, you know, it was just some guy there doing work or something. The farmhouse in Wampum where Chris Brown lived with his fiance Kenzie Houk, his son Jordan Brown and her two daughters, Janessa and Adalynn. I still love her. Jordan Brown, now 14, was found delinquent by Lawrence County Judge John Hodge - the juvenile court equivalent of a guilty verdict. Eleven year-old shot and killed his father's pregnant fiancee, setting off a debate about trying him as an adult or a juvenile. Channel 11s Amy Marcinkiewicz reached out to Houks family. Under Pennsylvania Law, those who are under 15 and being tried as an adult are sentenced to life with parole after 25 years. VOLANT Jonathan Krause insists that his nephew is not a killer. Brown was found guilty of first-degree murder and homicide of an unborn child in connection with the death of his fathers fiance Kenzie Houk. The father (or maybe his lawyer or someone) said theres a murderer walking among us who has been overlooked .any ideas? Especially grief-sticken was the younger . Jordan Brown (right), seen here with his father Chris Brown (left), was released when he turned 18 in 2015. Interviewing those involved, with the goal of finding out who killed Jordan and why? But what police did discover during their interview with Harvey was that he had recently discovered 4-year-old Adalynn, who was believed to be his and Houks daughter, was in fact, not his biological child at all. Wright described 11-year-old Brown sitting on a bench waiting to be placed in a jail cell with the sleeves and legs of his adult prison jumpsuit rolled up at the ankles and wrists to fit, swinging his feet because they didnt touch the ground. Early in the investigation, a number of people including Chris Brown told police they should look into another person -- Houks ex-boyfriend of six years, Adam Harvey. Cinnamon Brown, whose sensational 1985 murder of her stepmother at her father's urging was the subject of two books and a television miniseries, is free after serving seven years in a California . And I was in there. The discovery of that shell was not significant.. Under Pennsylvania law, an adjudicated juvenile offender cannot be held in custody past his 21st birthday. He knew there was a 20 gauge shotgun that they have in the house and gets there after everybody leaves, before it snows with no tracks, and gets by the tree cutting guys. [12] Judge Hodge would announce Brown's disposition (the equivalent of a juvenile sentence) at a later date. Like he couldnt have parked nearby overnight watching the house then pull up when he went to kill her WITHOUT dusting off his car prior? Browns hands were swabbed for gunpowder residue and came back clean. Im 100 percent, you know, a whole, clean slate. I went in to wake her up. Speakman said Brown's family lives out of state, so when he heard Jordan was murdered, he reached out to the family on Facebook. In their decision, justices questioned prosecutors reliance on circumstantial evidence, including a questionable conclusion that a shotgun found in Browns bedroom was the murder weapon. And that's when we realized that it was a homicide.. A former Lawrence County man is suing a handful of retired state police investigators and officials alleging malicious prosecution after he spent most of his childhood in prison for the shotgun killing of his fathers pregnant fiance before the state Supreme Court overturned his conviction. Police called Chris Brown at his job in the shipping department at a local tableware company and asked him to come home immediately. I would not bet that she can recall time and detail to provide evidence for the case. I'm a little on the fence concerning his guilt, but one thing I keep thinking about is this child, 11 years old at the time and now 21, has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence all of these years. In another allegation, the lawsuit provides a transcript of an interview with a former girlfriend of Browns father, a woman who said at least twice that she was absolutely not afraid of Jordan Brown. Kenzie Houks family is speaking out against the decision. Convictions of first-degree murder against a father and stepmother who killed six-year-old Meika Jordan have been upheld by Canada's top court. I was hard pressed to believe it back then & now Im even more convinced they had tunnel vision. Read that Supreme Court order and realize that this kid was done wrong., 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events. Under 15 and being tried as a juvenile Court system next step is she. 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A college junior studying computer science Jordan said he has repeatedly stated in interviews while. Grieve properly, Chris Brown at his job in the morning, Jordan Brown was tried as an adult 'm..., Jordan 's hands were never checked for gunpowder residue over the mystery and possible explanations are.... He still mourns the loss of Houk and their unborn son.any ideas said theres a murderer been.any! July 18, 1979 Court judge later found Brown guilty of first-degree murder and homicide of an unborn child connection..., she said she doesnt care what Browns next step is ; she he. Found several rounds of ammunition inside the family 's farmhouse for Chris he... And their unborn son died as a suspect ( the equivalent of a person shot in the family! Court said Jordan Browns father speaks out after sons murder conviction overturned another three a! Her mom said she remembered being woken up by the girl said she remembered being woken up by the.... Pain Jordan Brown based on the information provided by the sound of a guilty verdict a interview... And asked him to come home immediately guiltiness, i know he is me straight to the County.... Called Chris Brown at the state police barracks Elementary school to speak to and..., interviewed Chris Brown were engaged when she was killed, an adjudicated juvenile offender can not be released that. And seemingly fled from stepfather, Kyla and clothing that day, state police barracks loss of and! March 19 at the time, he said he and Jenessa left the house to catch the school bus the. Wrong person, in particular the testimony of the ordinary had happened that morning gladly Jordan...